tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post4861598577727170062..comments2023-11-02T04:53:05.386-05:00Comments on kc bob: Two Sides of Name Callingkc bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-91665932911123262212009-09-17T10:59:19.362-05:002009-09-17T10:59:19.362-05:00You're right, of course.You're right, of course.karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04203594257221430139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-89536793030857648262009-09-17T10:53:41.160-05:002009-09-17T10:53:41.160-05:00Yes, Karen, that is one of the reasons for my &quo...Yes, Karen, that is one of the reasons for my "opinion". It reminds me of when a parent tells a child to apologize and the child says "My mother said to say I'm sorry."<br /><br />Just my opinion, Karen. No extrasensory perception or sorcery involved. It's not the way I would have shown contrition. But, then again, I would not have yelled out "You lie" during a Presidential address. So, obviously Joe and I do things a little differently.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035489123868573312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-28073537138283448402009-09-17T10:47:23.079-05:002009-09-17T10:47:23.079-05:00"I find it hard to believe Joe Wilson was so ..."I find it hard to believe Joe Wilson was so overcome with passion that he just couldn't contain himself.I believe his outburst was planned." <br />No one could know--nor was there any indication--that his outburst was planned. People screw up and do stupid things.<br /><br />His apology wasn't sincere because he said he was asked to apologize. Shame on him.karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04203594257221430139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-49643798604060680472009-09-17T10:40:56.307-05:002009-09-17T10:40:56.307-05:00Karen,
How you get to the conclusion that I can ...Karen, <br /><br />How you get to the conclusion that I can read Joe Wilson's mind when I specifically said I cannot read his heart I find mystifying. <br /><br />I don't recall his exact words. But, I'm pretty sure either during the original apology or at a later time he indicated that he apologized because the leadership of his party asked him to. Also, his behavior since that time leads me to question how sincere his apology was/is. <br /><br />I didn't claim to be able to read his or anyone else's mind. I said "We all do things we later regret and <b>while I can't read Joe Wilson's heart</b>, I <i>think</i> his "apology" was far from sincere."Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035489123868573312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-37890401195414529862009-09-17T10:16:05.955-05:002009-09-17T10:16:05.955-05:00I believe that both behavior are inappropriate. Ap...I believe that both behavior are inappropriate. Apparently, some here believe it's okay to boo, but not yell out "you lie." Perhaps it really depends upon who is being disrespected. <br /><br />Brian,apparently you have the ability to read Joe Wilson's mind. Therefore, I could not possibly add anything more.karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04203594257221430139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-15684471663151960362009-09-16T15:10:37.880-05:002009-09-16T15:10:37.880-05:00In college, we hissed the other team. While it ap...In college, we hissed the other team. While it appeared less obstructive and more civilized than booing, it felt more insidious. Very effective. ;)<br /><br />For me, I guess I understand that Congress follows certain ancient protocol that allows people uninterrupted time to speak with time for rebuttal - also to be uninterrupted. This type of order is necessary for those that need it to speak. Listening to the opponent in debate is critical to refuting their position, or if your not a politician, being open to accepting their position if you find it reasonable. ;) So interruptions of any sort are not acceptable. If, however, you use your alloted time to speak with name calling and such, well, you've wasted your time expressing your position. It's your loss.<br /><br />It appears that the acceptable course of action with Presidential addresses to Congress is to allow the him to speak, follow that with curteous applause, then run, not walk, to the nearest camera and anchor to give the nation your opinion. Name calling is often encouraged, unless it's a roundtable discussion for PBS.Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16638784910676212171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-42255299919255141002009-09-16T14:12:46.147-05:002009-09-16T14:12:46.147-05:00Since I am a lady, I will decline to point out the...Since I am a lady, I will decline to point out the Brian got confused about who the good guys are. <br /><br /><i>[Roz waves her handkerchief daintily in Brian's direction]</i>Rozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233565410780178589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-32835857602513790752009-09-16T13:58:34.419-05:002009-09-16T13:58:34.419-05:00It's always OK to boo the Wolverines.
I may h...It's always OK to boo the Wolverines.<br /><br />I may have to recant. I'm sure I booed that team up north at Ohio Stadium at some point in my past.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035489123868573312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-25790314369830840692009-09-16T13:56:59.879-05:002009-09-16T13:56:59.879-05:00Oh, I love booing, but I only do it when Michigan ...Oh, I love booing, but I only do it when Michigan is playing Ohio State, and I only do it in the privacy of my living room.<br /><br />Is that okay?Rozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233565410780178589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-41055492158228811992009-09-16T13:53:19.233-05:002009-09-16T13:53:19.233-05:00I'm not a big fan of booing. I'm pretty s...I'm not a big fan of booing. I'm pretty sure I've never booed anyone. As bad as the Cincinnati Bungles are, I do not boo my home team.<br /><br />Booing in Congress seems extremely immature to me. I'm disappointed whenever I see our elected representatives doing such a thing. But, as several people have pointed out, that seems to have become accepted behavior. Yelling out "You lie" during the President's speech apparently has not become accepted (yet). Let's hope civility prevails and it's never accepted.<br /><br />Peace,<br />BrianBrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035489123868573312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-37013109232487330962009-09-16T13:50:41.284-05:002009-09-16T13:50:41.284-05:00I think the idea behind the "name-calling fee...I think the idea behind the "name-calling feels like slapping" thing is that words can really hurt.. and sometimes in the heat of the moment we don't understand how much we can hurt another person.<br /><br />And I guess I feel like I have enough opportunities to boo these days.. what with the Chiefs starting a new season :)<br /><br />And great thought Roz.. of course the cameras always seem to be running for the prez these days.. he loves the camera :)kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-55635584137351718782009-09-16T13:46:36.913-05:002009-09-16T13:46:36.913-05:00Booing, slap or not, is pretty common on the floor...Booing, slap or not, is pretty common on the floor of Congress. Shouting "you lie!" is, apparently less common and a faux pas.<br /><br />In my opinion, the real transgression was that is was on national television.Rozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233565410780178589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-62934295413145788772009-09-16T12:32:11.518-05:002009-09-16T12:32:11.518-05:00Phew. The backspace button randomly corrects a typ...Phew. The backspace button randomly corrects a typo or takes me "back." IRRITATING!<br /><br />I also wanted to say that Booing is saying that my loud, unintelligent noises add more to the debate than your reasoned thoughts. That's pretty much a slap, too.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-29572862459409949722009-09-16T12:27:11.986-05:002009-09-16T12:27:11.986-05:00Grrr. I just lost my second commenting attempting ...Grrr. I just lost my second commenting attempting to play along on my Blackberry. <br /><br />Name-calling does feel like slapping to me, and I figure slapping should be a rarely employed debate technique. ;-)<br /><br />Let me post this before I typo, hit backspace, and end up on the previoua page AGAIN. <br /><br />3<br /><br />3<br /><br />No. I'm not correcting those typos.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-58872661804042778792009-09-16T09:16:23.328-05:002009-09-16T09:16:23.328-05:00In reading these wonderful comments, it sounds lik...In reading these wonderful comments, it sounds like "it depends" is a logical answer as to whether name calling is a legitimate expression of debate.<br /><br />In this case, it depends on the implied (or in some cases documented) rules between the parties involved. In my household, if I am sitting around debating with my brothers, name calling is perfectly acceptable. British parliament apparently has the same agreement.<br /><br />If I am at work, however, there are tighter lines as to what is acceptable and what is not.<br /><br />In our Congress, booing, hisses, murmering, applause, holding up papers, turning away, standing ovations etc. have all been (in my lifetime at least) acceptable reactions. Shouting out and interrupting a speaker has not been acceptable. Those are the rules of that particular club. <br /><br />On a totally side note -- just had to laugh out loud when Wilson got up an complained that the proceedings yesterday were a waste of time and not solving America's problems. If he beleived that, he could have simply turned to his peers and said "I apologize" and it would have been over. But then he wouldn't be able to go out and sign pictures of himself "in action" to raise some bucks. Oh well.<br /><br />Thanks for the dialogue!Ed G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08870533414070848501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-43002298699914825342009-09-16T06:37:51.867-05:002009-09-16T06:37:51.867-05:00Karen,
I find it hard to believe Joe Wilson was s...Karen,<br /><br />I find it hard to believe Joe Wilson was so overcome with passion that he just couldn't contain himself.I believe his outburst was planned. We all do things we later regret and while I can't read Joe Wilson's heart, I think his "apology" was far from sincere. <br /><br />Joe made an excellent point. I know how I would treat my children had they done such a thing. I don't think it's right to boo the President or jeer at the President in such circumstances. But, it's been done. If I had seen my child booing, I would correct her. If she yelled out the way Joe Wilson did, I would demand a public apology. Joe Wilson has apologized (sort of). It was one of those "my mother told me I should apologize" apologies. And, I guess he's now been reprimanded by the house.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035489123868573312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-68339917663011179942009-09-16T06:32:42.366-05:002009-09-16T06:32:42.366-05:00Yes, Bob. I think "That is a lie" is mu...Yes, Bob. I think "That is a lie" is much better than you lie. However, the time and the place were all wrong for even that criticism.<br /><br />Peace,<br />BrianBrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035489123868573312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-76577352086798982772009-09-15T22:05:03.009-05:002009-09-15T22:05:03.009-05:00That didn't really answer my question.
Anyw...That didn't really answer my question. <br /><br /><br />Anyway...People mess up. People call people names. People get passionate about issues they care about.It's been happening since the beginning of time.<br />Jesus called people names.<br />What happens after is what matters. Sometimes people apologize. Sometimes they don't.karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04203594257221430139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-58587870991798806382009-09-15T19:33:58.194-05:002009-09-15T19:33:58.194-05:00In response to Karen's question about "bo...In response to Karen's question about "booing" versus screaming "you lie," replace "screamed you lied" with "booed" in the hypothetical described in my previous comment. Do you accept your child's booing?Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11832376808513132553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-43406886704642110282009-09-15T19:21:21.156-05:002009-09-15T19:21:21.156-05:00If your child was on the school debate team and du...If your child was on the school debate team and during a debate with another school's team your child screamed "you lie" at the other team, would you look for a justification or just call it what it is, disrespect of the opposing team and an embarrassment for your child's team and school.<br /><br />Passion doesn't justify an act of disrespect in any debate.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11832376808513132553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-42104708477055711022009-09-15T18:36:24.287-05:002009-09-15T18:36:24.287-05:00Ah...the real point of this dialog.
What about if ...Ah...the real point of this dialog.<br />What about if there is no name-calling? <br />What if, say, a bunch of House members booed Obama? Is that akin to name-calling? Is it wrong?karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04203594257221430139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-27141672134645163792009-09-15T18:24:25.349-05:002009-09-15T18:24:25.349-05:00I am enjoying the dialog in this thread.
What mak...I am enjoying the dialog in this thread.<br /><br />What makes a person a liar? One lie? Two? Three? Or something more of a pathological nature.<br /><br />I know that there is probably a line that someone crosses from telling a lie to being a liar.. sometimes it is an obvious one and sometimes it is not.<br /><br />Guess I am more comfortable calling something a lie rather than calling the person a liar. Feels like I am verbally slapping a person across the face when I call them a liar.<br /><br />As many are discussing Joe Wilson.. would it make any difference if he said "that is a lie" rather than "you lie"? <br /><br />Probably just semantics when you consider the place it was said. What do you think?kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-58673564793604268842009-09-15T18:13:57.340-05:002009-09-15T18:13:57.340-05:00Thank you, Coach. Far more elegant and concise tha...Thank you, Coach. Far more elegant and concise than I was capable of.Rozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233565410780178589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-82380970024739812762009-09-15T16:47:08.475-05:002009-09-15T16:47:08.475-05:00Kevin,
I agree with you. Calling a kettle a kett...Kevin,<br /><br />I agree with you. Calling a kettle a kettle and a pot a pot is not name calling. And, you gave some great examples.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035489123868573312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-51147273125874614752009-09-15T16:36:10.487-05:002009-09-15T16:36:10.487-05:00If the shoe fits..... in a debate on Nazi Germany ...If the shoe fits..... in a debate on Nazi Germany calling Hitler a murderer would be, considering the facts, justifiable. If someone sincerely believed that Hitler was correct, and believed in his ways of carrying out the master plan, would calling that person a murderer by proxy be considered justified. If during a debate on economics a politician tells you that 2 + 2 is indeed 3 and uses that to explain how they plan to pay for some new program, calling this person a liar would certainly seem reasonable (Wilson was wrong, without concrete facts supporting him...do not hang me out to dry because I used a simplified example). Calling the kettle black, or a duck a duck when the facts support it need not be condemmed, name calling out a hatred or ignorance is quite a different matter.coachscullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03377443776062776372noreply@blogger.com