tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post7474106295206050006..comments2023-11-02T04:53:05.386-05:00Comments on kc bob: Religious Meltdownkc bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-33523774574252332052008-11-22T15:37:00.000-06:002008-11-22T15:37:00.000-06:00Thanks Heather Ann. If I am hearing you right.. yo...Thanks Heather Ann. If I am hearing you right.. you are saying that the way we compare a church to the bible is by what the church teaches.. I like that.kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-37612589609514892602008-11-22T15:05:00.000-06:002008-11-22T15:05:00.000-06:00That is a good question, Kansas Bob. I'm know it ...That is a good question, Kansas Bob. I'm know it isn't as easy as my comment seemed to suggest. <BR/><BR/>The Bible says: <I>"Test everything. Hold on to the the good. Avoid every kind of evil."</I> 1 Thessalonians 5:21,22 <BR/>It sounds simple enough, but I'm sure most everyone knows that people can read the same Bible and come away with different interpretations. <BR/><BR/>In my humble opinion, God understands that we have differing points of view and that He knows and loves sincere, honest people who hold many differing beliefs. But I also believe that we each bear the resposablity to read the Word ourselves, and not just rely on the interpretation of a pastor, friend, parent, spouse, or any other human being. And we ALL (even pastors and leadaers) need to remember that we ourselves are fallable human beings and be open to correction when a fellow human comes to us with a correction that is based on the Word of God.<BR/><BR/>We also need to always remember to read the Word as a whole, and keep verses in context. There are verses that can be missinterpreted if taken alone. <BR/><BR/>Of course we do not always have time to spend hours in Bible study over evey issue, but I belive an easy rule of thumb is to compare a teaching or understanding with "<I>the fruit of the Spirit </I>[which]<I> is <B>love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness</B> and <B>self-control</B>.</I> Galatians 5:22<BR/><BR/><I>"Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with <B>compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness </B>and <B>patience. </B>Bear with each other and <B>forgive</B> whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on <B>love</B>, which binds them all together in perfect unity." </I> Colossians 3:12-14Heather Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850446131530649811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-10122751227056048272008-11-22T11:21:00.000-06:002008-11-22T11:21:00.000-06:00Thanks again for leaving such great comments.@crow...Thanks again for leaving such great comments.<BR/><BR/>@crownring - sometimes God builds a house but man makes unwise improvements :)<BR/><BR/>@Heather Ann - I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how the church can "practically" be compared to God's word.<BR/><BR/>@Ken - I agree about moves of God being messy.. might change your last sentence to say "continue to be transformed".kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-22503764353998499512008-11-21T22:44:00.000-06:002008-11-21T22:44:00.000-06:00Bob,Moves of God are almost ALWAYS messy ... the c...Bob,<BR/>Moves of God are almost ALWAYS messy ... the church is organic, and organic things wound and bleed. But they also adapt and prosper when they are infused with the Holy Spirit. Like the examples in your post,the dead stuff is eventually sloughed off. But the church of the kingdom will continue to transform and prevail.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00003765317884947141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-90008444493534145722008-11-21T20:46:00.000-06:002008-11-21T20:46:00.000-06:00I like your statement that "God should not be blam...I like your statement that "<I>God should not be blamed with some sort of wrecking ball imagery.</I>" <BR/><BR/>I think what this really demonstrates is that any movement, or doctrine, or leader should be tested against the word of God. If we try to use prosperity to show God's approval, and/or poverty to show God's disapproval we are really only putting our trust in capitalism. <BR/><BR/>The church is not promised prosperity in this life time. In fact the Bible says we will be persecuted for having faith. I don't think you can then say any group that is persecuted must be of God either. That would be just as ridiculous. <BR/><BR/>This is why I believe that the only measure must always and only be comparison with Word of God!Heather Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850446131530649811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-24103008009281876972008-11-21T19:23:00.000-06:002008-11-21T19:23:00.000-06:00Psalm 127 1 Unless the LORD builds the house, ...Psalm 127 <BR/> 1 Unless the LORD builds the house, <BR/> its builders labor in vain. <BR/> Unless the LORD watches over the city, the watchmen stand guard in vain.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Did God build these church buildings or did man? We know the answer, don't we?crownringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18091550580924650465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-7194447420412773972008-11-21T15:11:00.000-06:002008-11-21T15:11:00.000-06:00Not sure which move of God you are speaking to Ken...Not sure which move of God you are speaking to Ken but I certainly agree with Gamaliel.. of course even a genuine move of God gets messy :)kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-44591975385776660802008-11-21T15:04:00.000-06:002008-11-21T15:04:00.000-06:00"Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their ..."Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." -Gamaliel<BR/>(Acts 5:38, 39)<BR/><BR/>All of the op-eds and pundits in the world cannot stop a genuine move of God. Everything else is subject to the universal laws of corruption.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00003765317884947141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-50002267792359159782008-11-21T14:19:00.000-06:002008-11-21T14:19:00.000-06:00Man! So much is going on right now in every arena ...Man! So much is going on right now in every arena of life. I have taken great comfort in the words of Jesus in Matthew 28, "ALL authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." <BR/><BR/>I pray for healing within those churches, and for the knowledge, that we can trust in the promises of God.Cheryl Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14772914113371343068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-20834882630176917492008-11-20T17:58:00.000-06:002008-11-20T17:58:00.000-06:00Found it interesting that Focus on the Family spen...Found it interesting that Focus on the Family spent over a half million to pass prop 8 in California and just announced that they are laying off 20% of their staff.kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-11712313958421538362008-11-20T16:08:00.000-06:002008-11-20T16:08:00.000-06:00A timely reminded indeed .. thankyou.A timely reminded indeed .. thankyou.Mark (under construction)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12409495851983178265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-44161558977677340942008-11-20T13:34:00.000-06:002008-11-20T13:34:00.000-06:00You notice that in the new testament that when pau...You notice that in the new testament that when paul is writing his letters, he addresses them to the church and not to a senior "pastor"jrchaardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13858326373606903797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-68021708752435545182008-11-20T09:31:00.000-06:002008-11-20T09:31:00.000-06:00Thanks all for the feedback. The last comment remi...Thanks all for the feedback. <BR/><BR/>The last comment reminded me of how personal this stuff can be.. I have been involved in the meltdown of three of the last four churches that I have been a part of.. all melted down when pastors were removed from leadership.kc bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17440862813109808755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-37123086581020698422008-11-20T09:21:00.000-06:002008-11-20T09:21:00.000-06:00Love it Bob. I am very put off by what I see as e...Love it Bob. I am very put off by what I see as excess in church. We had our own downturn in our church as we bought on loan and paid a price. And when our Church was too focussed on professional minisitry, I think that leaves you open to an exodus when some leader leaves. Church, as an organization must be built on the body and not a leader. <BR/>There is a local church that has a bronze statue in the front of its pastor. That is as good as a stop sign to me. I wonder how this financial crisis is affecting this mall with a congregation.jrchaardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13858326373606903797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-87072561378113610192008-11-19T18:45:00.000-06:002008-11-19T18:45:00.000-06:00Bob ~~ what a needed and timely post. I so agree ...Bob ~~ what a needed and timely post. I so agree with your analogy and comments.<BR/><BR/>God is blamed for so many "man made choices" and you spoke to that in an excellent manner.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, I've missed several posts...hopefully I will get through some busy family times, and back to visiting every day!<BR/><BR/>LOL:WandaWandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06941735389982354519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-21274881913221728082008-11-19T17:52:00.000-06:002008-11-19T17:52:00.000-06:00I just don't get the whole celebrity christian thi...I just don't get the whole celebrity christian thing. maybe it's just my Aussie "tall-poppy-syndrome", but I like humility in leadership. And i'd like to think that, when ministries grow large, leaders know the difference between building the Kingdom of God, and consolidating the9r own empires. But I'm not convinced they do ..<BR/><BR/>But also, even good ministries have their time, moment and season.Lynnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10982043538182690871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-32450085352762988842008-11-19T13:03:00.000-06:002008-11-19T13:03:00.000-06:00Good thoughts. I totally agree. Add how we invest ...Good thoughts. I totally agree. Add how we invest to how we live and spend. Let's all be wise and return our thoughts and hopes to the one from whom all blessings flow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-749955731953911627.post-5676844037031599462008-11-19T11:58:00.000-06:002008-11-19T11:58:00.000-06:00Wow on the self-importance thing. How would the au...Wow on the self-importance thing. How would the author not realize how self-important that sounds? <BR/><BR/>I must say, some of the leaders I once admired have left me annoyed and aggravated in recent years. Billy Graham was always the exception, and many of these leaders should take note of the humility the Graham always displayed.MTRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02883602824495013894noreply@blogger.com